Ethics Of Breeding Cats
Posted 08 December 2004 - 06:26 AM
Dan in the USA
Posted 08 December 2004 - 09:56 AM
Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:53 AM
I try not to let mine have back-to-back litters - but sometimes they have other ideas - and the girls find a willing young participant, who we weren't aware could do "it" yet !!! LOL :P
Different Breeders have different policies for their Breeding Cats - but I won't be using my Girls for Breeding past the age of 3-4 years - I think that's long enough for them to be constantly calling, mating, being pregnant, giving birth and then feeding/raising the litter.
My boys will only be used for approx. the same amount of time - it's not fair for them to be outside in the "bachelor pad" for years on end. :blush:
Just my ideas...
Hope they help a bit....
Louise :cat2: cat1
Edited by birmanfanatic, 08 December 2004 - 10:54 AM.
Posted 08 December 2004 - 11:20 AM
Some Queens are happier when pregnant and will call from time the kittens are 12 - 14 weeks old.. and thats not healthy for them either.. so limiting the number of litters they have to a few years will ensure a longer, healthier and happier life.
Thats my opinion anyway
Posted 08 December 2004 - 11:53 AM
Ginger should be fine then. I was only planning on letting her have four litters before retiring her. This last litter was born on October 29th, so that would put her next planned litter in April, so I'll need to have her bred sometime between February or March. Which puts her fourth and last litter into next October... Hmm, that should work out about right. Then I can have her spayed before X-mas, what a cool present! I'll call it the "retirement package", lol.
Thanks for sharing your opinions, I want to make sure that I'm giving my "girls" a good life.
Dan in the USA
Posted 08 December 2004 - 03:15 PM
As Birmans breed twice in a year when mated back to back it works out at 4 or 5 litters maximum and desexed at 3 to 4 years of age.
Likewise with the studs - Clyde was not quite 3 years when he was de-sexed, Leon had just turned 2 and they still have all their lives to be cuddle cats.
I am sure that if you have a vascectimised boy you could breed less frequently and for a longer period of time quite safely.....and maintain the health of your girls.
Posted 09 December 2004 - 12:06 AM
When you say vascectimised, do you mean that the boy's tubes are tied but he still retains his testicles? How long would you leave a male in that state, before getting him completely neutered?
The more I think about this the more I'm beginning to think that I should only go for one pattern in my cats instead of two. Even with that, I'm looking at a lot of cats being around. You know, this wasn't suppose to turn into a "serious thing", lol. Hope you don't mind my thinking through this out loud, some of the implications of breeding are starting to come to light and I don't want a cat factory. I get the feeling that I'm going to need to partner up with another person who would be willing to work at this with me. Oh, this should be interesting...
Dan in the USA
Posted 09 December 2004 - 08:37 AM
My boys would rather be lap cats so I don't follow that route.
Posted 12 December 2004 - 01:39 AM
I am wondering about something though... some have mentioned that they retire their studs after three or four years, others use them for up to 8 or 10. Is there a logistical reason for this? It seems to me that whether it's a V-boy, a fully intact breeder or otherwise, male cats shouldn't suffer the same health consequences from actively breeding as female cats would because males aren't nurturing any offspring. I can understand not using a given male as a breeder for more than four years as you wouldn't want his name on to many pedigrees, so is it safe to assume that a stud would be kept active for 8-10 years so that he can be bred to grandchildren that are several times removed? Just how often can a particular cat be present in any given pedigree before problems begin to show up?
BTW, I think that given a choice all cats would prefer to be lap cats. My lap will vouch for that, lol.
Posted 12 December 2004 - 11:09 PM
The experts say that any inbreeding should not be more than 12.5 % and there are pedigree programmes that work that out for you. Maybe you could contact Alwyn Hill in the UK - she knows lots about this as the UK was basically closed to imports because of rabies in Europe etc until fairly recently......this is her contact - of course she is a Birman Breeder but is very interested in line and inbreeding and outcrosses etc.
Hope that helps - she is a very nice and knowledgeable lady.
Posted 13 December 2004 - 02:47 AM
When it comes to inbreeding, I've never heard any expert recommend more than 6.25 % inbreeding (mating cousins). The most important thing is that the offspring has lower inbreeding coefficient than its parents. The populations overall inbreeding coeffiecient should become smaller for every generation. Personally I wouldn't do a combintation that generates more than 5 % based on 5 generations.
Posted 14 December 2004 - 04:38 PM
I understand that in an established population those might be the ideals, but I'm trying to build an entirely new base to build up from. Since I'm starting with only one female, I'm having to use different males to increase the genepool. In order to set the traits though, my initial thoughts on how to start out for the first few generations is to mate her sons from different fathers back to her, then to mate the offspring from those matings to the opposite original first sons. Depending on how well that F3 generation turns out, I plan on bringing in a few new males from an already established breed to mate to the females of the F3 generation and then work from there. I'm going to have to set the traits I'm looking for and weed out the ones I don't want somehow, so that's where my concern about inbreeding comes from. Looks like I may just have to find out the hard way, through trial and error.
Thanks again for your responses, I really do appreciate your assistance and input.
Posted 14 December 2004 - 07:00 PM
You are probably better to take the queens daughters from different studs and go out with them in different directions and come back in the F3 generation to one of the sons. It might be slower but the results should still come up.
Posted 14 December 2004 - 09:45 PM
If you inbreed, outbreed in the next generation. Inbreeding should always be followed by outbreeding. I really recommend this article: http://www.pawpeds.c...void/index.html
Everytime you choose to inbreed you lose genetic variation! Some think of it as a good thing since one wants a breed to be homogene, but in reality genetic variation is essentiall for maintaing good healt and longevity.
Posted 15 December 2004 - 09:10 AM